Jersey Arts Podcast

John Gorka Visits the Lizzie Rose Music Room

• ArtPride New Jersey

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Rolling Stone has called him "the leading singer-songwriter of the New Folk Movement." New Jersey’s own John Gorka is a world-renowned singer-songwriter who is most comfortable with a guitar in hand. 

You may hear him strum the guitar occasionally throughout the piece and not just during his live performances! That's right, this episode includes three live serenades, including "I'm From New Jersey" and "Oh Abraham."

This is an episode you won't want to miss.

Thanks for listening!

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The Jersey Arts Podcast is one medium of Feature Stories on Discover Jersey Arts (jerseyarts.com), where articles and videos also cover New Jersey’s vibrant arts and entertainment scene.

Discover Jersey Arts is presented by ArtPride New Jersey. The program was co-founded by, and is currently supported by funds from, the New Jersey State Council on the Arts. Additional support for JerseyArts.com content is provided by the National Endowment for the Arts.

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Gina Marie Rodriguez:

This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're listening to the Jersey Arts Podcast. It would seem that today's guest and I have a special connection, but I won't spoil the surprise. You'll just have to listen to learn what it is. Rolling Stone has called him the leading singer-songwriter of the New Folk Movement. New Jersey's own John Gorka is a world-renowned singer-songwriter who is most comfortable with a guitar in hand. As a matter of fact, that's my favorite part of this interview. You may hear him strum the guitar occasionally throughout the piece as we chat and I'm not just referring to the live performances I was treated to. You heard that right. Gorka surprised me with not one, but three live serenades, including my favorites of his. I'm from New Jersey and, oh, abraham, I think this is an episode you won't want to miss. I have to say I'm really excited to talk to you because I heard that you're from Colonia, new Jersey.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I am Absolutely. Yeah, I grew up there. That's where I grew up too.

John Gorka:

Yes, did you go to Colonia High?

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I did.

John Gorka:

Wow.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Yes.

John Gorka:

Well, that's funny Wow.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I don't hear of a lot of people from Colonia, I mean, aside from the people that I went to high school with right. So it's exciting when I hear someone else is from Colonia and I heard it in your song, which is my favorite song oh, Abraham.

John Gorka:

Oh, abraham, right yes.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I get so excited.

John Gorka:

Wood Avenue between Inman and New Dover yeah.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Yes, I love that so much. My friend, one of my best friends, actually grew up on Wood.

John Gorka:

Avenue, so I headed to Wood Avenue very often. Oh wow, yeah, I think. Apparently the house I grew up in has been bulldozed and made into a cul-de-sac so I can't really go home again. But friends of mine got some soil from that and gave me a little sample, so I've got that little home dirt.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

That's so sweet. So did you grow up on Wood Ave.

John Gorka:

Yes, yeah, 800 Wood Avenue. Yeah.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Oh, my God, that's so close. All right, I'm actually not going to say that, because I'll give away where my friend lives but very nearby, so I think I know exactly where you're talking about. Yeah, that was actually really disappointing when they bulldozed that area, but I still love it there. I actually don't live very far, so New Jersey is still home for me. Where are you now?

John Gorka:

I'm in Minnesota. Minnesota, I've been here since 96. Is there a big folk scene out in Minnesota? I've's a lot of good, good artists and musicians and uh some good studios and uh some good places to play. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's okay that's great, but you'll always be from new jersey.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

It will always be yes no matter what and this is the jersey arts podcast. So I love talking about uh, about jersey and two folks from New Jersey. I happen to love your song. I'm From New Jersey.

John Gorka:

All right.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Super relatable.

John Gorka:

I've got a guitar here if you want me to play anything at any point.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Oh my God, would you.

John Gorka:

We can do a quick sound check. Let's see Absolutely.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Oh, I'm already in love with you, thank you.

John Gorka:

I'll do the New Jersey song. I wrote this after reading Richard Ford's book the Sports Writer, where he's a sports writer based in New Jersey, and there's something about it crystallized and it's not. This does not apply universally in New Jersey, but I think there is a segment where it's true, for Okay, stop me if the voice is weird or anything.

John Gorka:

I'm from New Jersey. I don't expect too much. If the world ended today, I would adjust. I'm from New Jersey. No, I don't talk that way. I watched too much TV when I was young. I'm from New Jersey, my mom's Italian. I've read those mafia books. We don't belong. There were girls from New Jersey who had that great big hair Once found in shopping malls. I will take you there. I'm from New Jersey. It's not like Texas. No, there is no mystery. I can't pretend I'm from New Jersey. It's like Ohio, but even more so. Imagine that I know which exit and where I'm bound. Tolls on the parkway. They will slow you down. New Jersey people. They will surprise you Cause they're not expected to do too much. They will try harder, they may go further, cause they never think that they are good enough. I'm from New Jersey. I don't expect too much. If the world ended today, I would adjust, I would adjust, I would adjust.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Can I just tell you you fulfilled a dream of mine. I have always wanted to be serenaded. I just got my own private concert. I don't know if you can tell, but that made me cry. Oh, that's really nice.

John Gorka:

Well, thank you.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

No, that was so good. I love that song and it's so relatable for so many reasons, but I love that line. If the world ended today, yeah.

John Gorka:

So yeah, kind of adjusting now.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Absolutely. Oh my God, thank you for that, really Thank you, yeah, but let's talk about your music, because you've got a lot of really wonderful songs, and I myself am not a musician. So I always ask these questions of artists sure, how do you, how do you find your sound, how did you find your way to folk music?

John Gorka:

um, I think I first wanted to be a banjo player so that the um, I love the sound of the and I got the wrong kind of banjo. The first banjo I got was a tenor banjo and I realized that's not the kind of I really wanted to learn, like Earl Scruggs style, which is a five-string banjo, and I love that sound. I love hearing them on the Beverly Hillbillies and the soundtrack to Bonnie and Clyde the soundtrack to Bonnie and Clyde, and then in 73, I think that's when Deliverance, the theme song to Deliverance came out the Dueling Banjos. So I just loved the sound of the banjo and I picked up the guitar about six months later.

John Gorka:

My brother plays guitar and so I started playing guitar. He showed me some chords and he had a bunch of song books that he let me borrow and I started writing songs pretty much right away because I think I knew I wanted to be a writer before I knew music was going to be the way and I thought when I started to write songs I just wanted to see if I could and I started trying to do it a little bit. I felt like the combination of words and music was much more powerful than words alone, at least the way I could express them. I'm not the most outgoing person, I'm pretty shy and socially awkward. So music, it was kind of my way out and a way of reaching other people in a way that I was more or less comfortable with.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Well, I think that's really the beauty of music, because that's where your voice is most comfortable and where you're able to tell stories. Yeah, and I saw that you, you had studied initially philosophy and history. Is that correct?

John Gorka:

That's right. Yes, at Moravian College in Bethlehem.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I feel like that. Maybe it's an assumption on my part, but I feel like that must have played well into your musical journey, because you're writing stories right. So both of those things, I think, are very helpful, I think.

John Gorka:

I think it did. I love history, you know, and I often just say that I was a philosophy major because that's funnier, but I love the big ideas, the big questions. So that and history. I thought I wanted to study stuff that would be hard for me to learn on my own. So I started writing songs in high school and continued through.

John Gorka:

I met some fellow musicians at Moravian Doug Anderson and Russ Rentler, and later Richard Schindel. We formed the Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band and we would meet every Friday at Doug's apartment. He was a little older than us, he was married and had an apartment we would go to off campus and that was lots of fun. He knew hundreds of songs and was generous with lending his record collection. And then he took me to Godfrey Daniels Coffee House in probably some time, because I met Russ Rentler the very first night of the Moravian College. They had a freshman orientation coffee house and they invited incoming freshmen to perform if they want to. So I played and Doug Anderson, who was in the audience, saw Russ Rentler who played mandolin and me who playing banjo. He thought he saw the makings of a bluegrass band. So that was the beginning of the Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love that. I think I mean look like I said, I'm not a musician so sometimes I get my words mixed up, but bluegrass and folk are two separate genres. Yes, yeah, pretty much, but closely related.

John Gorka:

There's some related. You know it's related in a lot of the same instruments. You know the styles are a little different but using acoustic instruments and the Resi Desi Spasm Band wasn't a very traditional bluegrass band but we did some of the songs that were kind of standards.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love that kind of music, especially nowadays. I mean, the world is the world is always kind of crazy. I think we just hear more about it now because of social media and the news in our palms. But I really turn to music that I find soothing. Yeah, and your music does that.

John Gorka:

Oh, thanks, that's what I hope, that you know. If my music has an effect, I hope it will make people feel less alone. I think that's my great hope. By doing music, I can help people feel less alone.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Absolutely Well what you just did for me singing I'm from New Jersey. To me, that absolutely made me feel less alone.

John Gorka:

Thank you oh thanks.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love that song, but I guess the question to you is who do you listen to when you need to be soothed?

John Gorka:

Oh, I think I probably play, for that helps me just to kind of figure out what's going on inside, you know, and pick up the instrument and hit a chord that I've played a million times, but whatever that moment it's something that feels different, and so I kind of keep going at it and see if it leads anywhere and see if any words come to mind. Usually, if I have lyrics, I can almost always come up with a tune, but it doesn't always work both the other way around. That's one of the things I ask other songwriters, you know, are they music first, words first, or both at the same time? Sometimes people say it was just the general idea or an image that starts things off, but the process is kind of endlessly fascinating and still mysterious to me.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Do you ever get woken up in the middle of the night with an idea and you have to jump out of bed and write a song?

John Gorka:

I have done that A lot of the times. I monitor my thoughts as I'm going to sleep at night or waking up in the morning. Those seem to be the most productive time for lyrics and musically. Sound check times are a good time that I find myself playing something. You know, when I should be thinking about what I should be playing that night or that day, I find myself noodling and playing something I've not recorded, not not played before. It's like oh, what's this? So it's kind of an odd thing, but that's. I try to pay attention to that those times and try to note the whatever it was I was playing, if maybe recorded on the phone or that kind of thing, because the ideas will come and go. They'll come and stay and keep knocking at your door. Others will just kind of visit and if you're not receptive the idea will move on to someone else. My friend Eliza Gilkison says if the song, an idea comes to you and you kind of refuse it or you don't want to give it attention, they all default to Bob Dylan.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Do you keep a notebook or a guitar by your nightstand if you need to wake up?

John Gorka:

Oh, I've got a guitar. I've got a guitar next to it, and if it turns out that I've got something, I'll try to record it somehow, because notebooks I like writing on rather than typing on a keyboard, I like writing in longhand. That seems to that kind of reminded me of that. You know, I took a course with Tom Paxton at the Swannanoa Gathering in North Carolina. I was one of the instructors there but I had some time so I was able to attend a couple classes. So I got to sit in on Tom Paxton's class several times and one of the things he had an exercise where he said his wife was a psychologist and she said that the act of writing pen or, you know, pen or pencil to paper, just that physical act, stimulates the creative part of your brain. So that's, it's a little bit. I think it's a little bit more effective than typing on a keyboard. So that that's something I try. We, we did an exercise and ended up coming up with a song out of it. So that that's uh, the, the, the process is, like I said, is endlessly fascinating and just those those things. And uh, the other thing, uh, for me was uh.

John Gorka:

That made a huge difference for me was meeting Jack Hardy at Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse in June of 1979. He was the first person I met who wrote songs on a schedule. His schedule was to finish a song a week. I didn't know that songwriters could do that. I knew that fiction writers would try to get up and write a certain number of words a day, pages a day, whatever.

John Gorka:

But I didn't know songwriters did that. I said I just kind of wait for inspiration to strike. And he said that's a cop-out. If you work at it, even if you throw out you put yourself on a schedule, even if you throw out three-quarters of what you come up with, you're going to get better faster just by kind of exercising the writing muscles. So I started to. I did that. I thought song a week would was too ambitious. So I thought, okay, I'll do, I'll try to song a month. And after the first year I had more songs than months. So I went to two songs a month. So I had deadlines on the 15th and the end of the month and I stayed on that kind of a no. That was what I would shoot for many years until having kids.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I should really adapt that because I'm a writer as well and I used to wait Well used to, I still do. I wait for inspiration. That because I'm a writer as well and I used to wait, well used to, I still do. I wait for inspiration. But I like the idea of setting a deadline for write something once a month or twice a month. I think that's great. I also feel really validated. You said your psychologist friend prefers, or that writing on paper actually stimulates a different part of the brain.

John Gorka:

I have so many notepads all over the house.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I prefer you. I prefer pen to paper. I still do.

John Gorka:

Yeah, tom Paxton, his wife was a psychologist and she told him about that and he brought that into the class. So that was lots of fun. And what was I going to say? That kind of writing on a schedule thing. It's sometimes that just by kind of forcing yourself not just making some time to sit down with an empty space, you have to have kind of a clear physical space to allow new things to come in. Sometimes when you work at you know you show up every day and work at it you'll find inspiration halfway through the process. You know it's not there at the beginning, but just by kind of trying to come up with something you meet the inspiration then. So I like that idea. I think that Mary Oliver the poet said she would try to work at something every day and go for walks. And she said if you keep showing up, the muse learns to trust you. And I thought that's a great way of putting it.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love that.

John Gorka:

My jaw just literally dropped but, I, love that quote. Yeah, yeah, she has a poetry handbook, I think, and there was also another book that I'm spacing out at the moment. That was called, like, the Poetry Home Repair Manual. I'm forgetting his name, but that's also very inspiring.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I will definitely look into that. I think this led me to my next question, and it's something I ask every artist. But you've already given me a lot of advice, so it's okay if I'm putting you on the spot here, but I'd like to ask for those younger folks who are looking to get into the industry, who are looking to become musicians, the industry who are looking to become musicians what would you say to encourage them?

John Gorka:

I think that my son has taken an interest in writing songs and getting out there. I said that putting yourself on a schedule is kind of a good thing but you keep showing up, you know, in terms of going to open mics any place where you can, because I'm not a naturally comfortable performer. I just kind of forced myself to go to open mics, you know, multiple nights a week, just so it's like I'm still not all that comfortable performing but I've come to terms with my own discomfort just by working on it and you know, kind of having it come into muscle memory. But I think keep showing up, you know, and keep in touch with your instrument or your voice and check in regularly to see if the muse is in.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Honestly, I find that kind of advice really comforting because I think so many artists are introverts or really uncomfortable being out there publicly. They just want to share their work. But, it's admirable that you forced yourself to live in the discomfort and to be vulnerable. That's brave. That's really brave.

John Gorka:

I was in a place Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse was a place where people listen. It's still there and people still come to listen to music there. It's still a great place and they'd have open mics on Sunday nights. It was a 10-minute walk from my dormitory and they'd have open mics on Sunday nights. It was a 10-minute walk from my dormitory and I remember one of the first times playing band. You know, I'd play fine in my room, you know, or in the basement of the dormitory, but then I'd get on stage and it's my hands. It was like whose hands are these? That's one of those things for performing. You have to just kind of do it so it becomes muscle memory rather than just your. You know, it's got to be kind of in your hands and in your singing, in your voice, so that you don't have to feel like you're creating something every second. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

No, you absolutely are making perfect sense. I wish I had more interviews where someone has a guitar on their lap, because I would love to hear you strum as you talk, because I can tell that this is your safe space and you just keep reaching for.

John Gorka:

It 's it. That's what I feel like. Okay, I'm probably going to run out of things to say, but at least I'll have a song. There's a song I can. I can, I can probably get through, uh, at at the moment, maybe, maybe I should play a song. Maybe I'll try to play the O Abraham song oh okay, I will not stop you.

John Gorka:

I was reading about some of the things that Abraham Lincoln said and wrote and did and, at the same time, reading one of those Beat generation books about Jack Kerouac and his pals, and one of the things that it said about Jack Kerouac is that he was on a crew that helped to build the Pentagon. I just like the idea that it's called oh Abraham, oh Abraham.

John Gorka:

I see a penny and I pick it up. If not the money, I could use the luck, and if it's face down, then I turn it over Head forward. Avenue between Inman and New Dover, back to my hometown. Gas was cheaper where I'm from, but the driving's not so good. People go and stay where they should not and they don't do it like I would would. Work is not the same as before. There's more software hands in this hardware store.

John Gorka:

Yeah, yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Abraham. Look at all the money now. Oh, abraham, goodnight it's your party. But I'll cry if I want to. I wouldn't care how much they had, if they would only do what's right, not far right. I was born by a Kerouac stream, under Eisenhower skies. They saw freedom as a big idea. Now it was right before my eyes. They say Jack helped to build the Pentagon and I built the interstate, and we are off and on. Yeah, yeah, oh, oh Abraham. Oh, abraham, was it all about the money then? Oh, abraham, goodnight it's your party. But I'll cry if I want to, I'll power it, I want to, all powered up and charmed with might. So we are right. We're always right. Right, we're right. They're wrong. Let them get their own song. I see a penny and I pick it up. Ninety-nine more and I have a buck. Abe, you were born in old Kentucky. We still miss you here.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

By far the best day of my life.

John Gorka:

I've had so many good wives now.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Thank you so so much. Oh, you're welcome. You're going to be in New Jersey soon. You're going to be at the Lizzy Rose Music Room.

John Gorka:

Yeah, very nice place yeah.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

What can we look?

John Gorka:

forward to. Yeah, I'll probably, you know, play some favorites. You know I have a new record coming out, probably later this year. It's called Unentitled. It's called Unentitled and uh, and it's got some new new songs and some old, older songs that, uh, that I never either never finished recording or they didn't have a place in the in those other records. So, but I've got some of my old friends Lucy Kaplansky sings on it, eliza Gilkyson, alice Peacock, kathleen Johnson, a fantastic singer, sings on it, and some of the players that I've worked with before in Minneapolis. Yeah, so at the Lizzie Rose I'll just be doing a, a, a variety of things. You know I don't come, I say I read, I have a, I write up a set list every night, but not till after, uh, so it'll be, it'll be. I'll probably do some requests and uh, and some people's favorites and uh and and songs that feel right to do at the moment.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I think that's great. I like the live in the moment right.

John Gorka:

Yeah, yeah, because that's David Bromberg said that the reason why he was successful. He said it wasn't because he was a great guitar player or a great singer, which I think. I disagree on both of those things. He said he was successful because he knew what song to play. Next, everything's new all the time. Every second is new. There's Rick Rubin's book about the creative act. It's also a very inspiring book for songwriters, anybody, any artist. One of the things he said was that you know, pay attention to what's going on right now because it's. You know. It might seem like it was a situation that you've been in before, but the outside world is changing every second. Internally, your body is changing, replacing new cells, and so there's new stuff going inside and out. So just remember that and even if things didn't work out in the past, you've got a new beginning every second.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Ain't that the truth?

John Gorka:

It's a great book. I love that book and also Shinichi Suzuki's book Nurtured by Love. He's the one who invented the Suzuki method, where kids start, you know, kids who can't read music. In sixth grade I took viola using my grandfather's violin restrung, and that you know, because you start playing music right away. Play, you know it's like. The idea is that people learn to speak and understand the language before they learn how to write it. Uh, read or write it so uh that that. That was an inspiring book.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

that, and Rick Rick Rubin's book, uh you've given some really great advice, real gems today.

John Gorka:

Thank you, so so much it's been a real pleasure it's been very fun. Should I play us out please? How about this? It's just a short thing. It's just a. It's called, if not, it's just four lines if not us, not them.

John Gorka:

If not now, then when? If not here nor there, if not this world, then where? If not us, not them. If not now, then when? If not here nor there, if not this world, then where? If not us, not them. If not now, then when? If not here nor there.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

What a treat, three live performances in one short podcast. And that was just a taste of the soul-soothing music of John Gorka, but you can see him in all his glory at the Lizzie Rose Music Room on June 4th at 7.30pm. For tickets and more information, be sure to visit LizzieRoseMusic. com. If you liked this episode, be sure to review, subscribe and tell your friends. A transcript of this podcast, links relevant to the story and more about the arts in New Jersey can be found at JerseyArts. com. The Jersey Arts Podcast is presented by Art Pride New Jersey, advancing a state of creativity since 1986. The show was co-founded by and currently supported by funds from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts. This episode was hosted, edited and produced by me, Gina Marie Rodriguez. Executive producers are Jim Atkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez, and my thanks, of course, to John Gorka for speaking with me today. I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez for the Jersey Arts Podcast. Thanks for listening.

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