Jersey Arts Podcast

Pioneer Productions Company Presents 'What the Constitution Means to Me'

• ArtPride New Jersey

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If you’re an avid news viewer, you’ve probably heard discussions of the U.S. Constitution bandied about as of late. Is it being violated? Are we upholding it? Does anyone really know what’s in it?

Well, if you’re not sure what’s in it but you’re intrigued and would like to learn through a fun and engaging night at the theater, Pioneer Productions Company invites you to their production of “What the Constitution Means to Me.”

And if you do know what’s in it and enjoy lively debate, you’re still going to want to see this show! But what is it really about?

The autobiographical two-time Tony-nominated play and Pulitzer finalist was written and first performed by Heidi Schreck. The synopsis reads: Fifteen-year-old Heidi earned her college tuition by winning Constitutional debate competitions across the United States. In this hilarious, hopeful, and achingly human play, she resurrects her teenage self in order to trace the profound relationship between four generations of women and the founding document that shaped their lives.

Miriam Salerno will tackle the role of Heidi alongside Benjamin Weisman as the Legionnaire under the direction of Pioneer Artistic Director Daniel Vissers. Ashlee Vissers will appear as the Debater.

Not only is this an engaging play, but this production is bookended by excitement, beginning with a pre-show USO performance by Jade Delos Santos and ending with a live debate where it is up to the audience to proclaim the winner!

Thanks for listening!

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Gina Marie Rodriguez:

This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're listening to the Jersey Arts podcast. If you're an avid news viewer, you've probably heard discussions of the U.S. Constitution bandied about as of late. Is it being violated? Are we upholding it? Does anyone really know what's in it? Well, if you're not sure what's in it, but you're intrigued and would like to learn through a fun and engaging night at the theater, Pioneer Productions Company invites you to their production of what the Constitution means to me. And if you do know what's in it and enjoy lively debate, you're still going to want to see the show. But what is it really about? The autobiographical two-time Tony nominated play and flip the finalist was written and first performed by Heidi Strack. The synopsis reads: 15-year-old Heidi earned her college tuition by winning constitutional debate competitions across the United States. In its hilarious, hopeful, and fakingly human play, she resurrects her teenage self in order to trace the profound relationship between four generations of women and the founding document that shaped their lives. Miriam Salerno will tackle the role of Heidi alongside Benjamin Weissman as the legionnaire, under the direction of pioneer artistic director Daniel Vitzers. Ashley Vitzers will appear as the debater. Now, not only is this an engaging play, but this production is bookended by excitement. Beginning with a pre-show USO performance by Jay De los Santos and ending with a live debate where it's up to the audience to proclaim the winner. Today I'm chatting with the director and the cast of what the Constitution means to me. So let's meet the team.

Dan Vissers:

My name is Dan Vissers. I am the artistic director of Pioneer, and I'm directing What the Constitution Means to Me.

Miriam Salerno:

Hi, my name is Miriam Salerno, and I am playing Heidi in What the Constitution Means to Me.

Benjamin Weisman:

And I'm Benjamin Weisman, and I am playing the Legionnaire in What the Constitution Means to Me.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I'm so excited. This show is, well, it's pretty timely, isn't it? I think it's important that we talk about it. And I want to know what was your understanding of our constitution. And this is a question for everyone. What was your understanding of our constitution before becoming familiar with this show? Because I'll tell you right up front, I still don't understand our constitution. And I mean, I that is something that I am not proud of. I am still quite ashamed of it. So I need to see the show so that I can understand. But I'm curious if you guys were in the same boat or if you maybe were history majors with all of this.

Miriam Salerno:

So I was a history and political science major and a bit of a nerd. And constitutional law was actually my favorite class as an undergrad. So this was something that I was pretty intimately familiar with, although, you know, hadn't really spent a lot of time thinking about it in an academic way in a long time. So when I first read the play, it was like I immediately connected with Heidi because it was like all of my things that I was passionate about in one place. So that's me.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I think you were ahead of the game there because, like I said, that I don't think that I could play Heidi at this point in time. Maybe, you know, with more research, sure. But I definitely didn't start with the background that you did.

Benjamin Weisman:

Dan, uh so I'll I'll jump a little, I'll say, you know, I like like Miriam, I did study political science and um uh I loved constitutional law. I come from a family of lawyers and a good judge or two. So um so it's a very, you know, legal household, if you will, that I grew up in and knowing. Uh, you know, for me, the the knowledge of the constitution, I think, was very much uh more intellectual than practical. And I think one of the things with this show that I've loved so much is that it takes what isn't the Constitution is so often treated as a museum piece, I think, and it's not that. It actually really does have a real impact on people's lives, which I think this play really tells that story so powerfully. And then the other part of my life is in politics. I'm a I'm a town council member in my town and have been really involved in politics for over a decade in various ways. Uh, and so certainly again taking this out of just sort of an intellectual exercise, but into the real impact of something that I've been really has been a part of my life in a couple of different avenues, I would say.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Well, obviously, this was a well-cast show.

Dan Vissers:

Uh so I actually I'll just jump in real quick. Um, I just want to say, like, I didn't actually know the background between Ben and Miriam as far as all this constitutional stuff until right now. So actually, that makes perfect sense because their understanding of this material um is right on point. Um, and I just want to say I'm one of those people, I don't have a constitutional law background. My memory of constitutional stuff from high school is minimal. Um, so I came into this where I just feel like this show is so educational in a great way. Like there's things you remember, but then it drives it home. Um, and how it's a living and breathing document and it's constantly evolving, you know. Um, the amendments, all of that. And even in the current climate, you know, things are still evolving, but that's kind of how it should. There's an ebb and a flow to everything, you know. So um, this is all part of the process, is what I'm learning from the show.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love this so much. I love that this podcast is what allowed you to learn, you know, about a little more about Benjamin and Miriam as well.

Dan Vissers:

Oh, yeah, 100%. It makes sense though. I'm like, oh yeah, now that all makes sense.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Yeah. How did you know that?

Dan Vissers:

Oh I thought they were just great actors and did their well, they are. They are. That's pretty good.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

They are indeed. Yeah, that's it's something that I always say I want to learn more about, but I find politics to be a little daunting. Like uh I don't know if daunting is the right word, overwhelming. Like in order to educate myself at this point in my life, I feel like I'm a little behind the curve. You know, I wish I'd paid more attention in world history or in uh US history, especially US history. Um but yeah, this show I've seen pop up a few times now. And I mean, the reasons may be obvious, but I will ask you anyway. You plan your season well in advance, right? I mean, you this has been in the works for months now. So at the time when you were planning your season, how did you come upon this show? What what landed you here?

Miriam Salerno:

So I was first introduced to the show by Dan. He gave me the script to read probably four or five years ago, a while ago, um, when it was first uh I think released. And I immediately loved it. And I knew at some point that like it would be a dream to do it. But the years kind of went on and we had other projects, and I don't really know what it was, but last I think it was March or April of last year, just this light bulb went off in my head, and I was just like, this is the time to do it. Like, you know, obviously the context of what was happening around us played a part in that that feeling that I had. But um so I texted Dan and I was like, Hey, what do you think about doing the Constitution next season? Trying to squeeze it in. We always have a fall play and a spring musical. We this is the first season we've done three shows. And so I said to him, I said, you know, what do you think about trying to squeeze this in next year? We sort of my first thought was like maybe sometime around Martin Luther King Day, but you know, wound up being a little bit later, and he responded, like, yeah, let's do it. Um and so then we brought it to the rest of the board and they all, you know, agreed. So that was like from my perspective, but Dan, uh, you know, what was going through your head?

Dan Vissers:

Well, I just want to chime in, and again, this was a coincidence entirely, but um, it's the 250th anniversary of the constitution this year. So that's another reason we were lucky to get the rights because there are so many theaters that caught on to that and they were like, Oh yeah, we should do it. So we got in there at the right time. Um and it's just such an important show. So to tie it into the constitution's anniversary is is ideal.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I think I just learned the word for the 250th anniversary, and I'm going to mess it up now. Is it the semi-quincentennial? I think that's what it's called. I would know the answer to that.

Benjamin Weisman:

I know I think I see I I think that's right. I'm like, I think that's right.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Yeah, it's when I first saw it, I was like, semi. What that it that feels like a cop-out, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, apparently it's just the semi-quincentenal.

Miriam Salerno:

Just because we're nerds, it's not the 250th of the constitution. Oh, of the sorry since we're nerds. Yes, it's the 250th anniversary of our nation, and that's what I meant.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

As we've learned that it is the 250th anniversary of our nation and that of our constitution, although I would have assumed that it was also our constitution, which is that a whole conversation about how little I know. So I think uh I started this conversation with the assumption that everybody just knows what this show is about. Silly me. How about both Miriam and and Benjamin? You walk me through what a little bit what the show is about, but also what it means to you personally and what you've learned from your roles as as you've crafted these backgrounds in this production.

Miriam Salerno:

So like I said earlier, you know, I I I immediately did identify with Heidi just because of her, you know, experience, what you know, studying she, you know, she she talks about the fact that she went into college pre-law and she also did theater, and like that was very much kind of like where I came from as well. So it was pretty easy for me to sort of slip into her skin, you know, as a starting point, uh, because I'm the same age she was when she did it on Broadway. And you know, I we I have similar interests and points of view as she does or as she did when she was writing this. And then I think it took more work for me when I had to kind of work through her personal family story, you know, that was more where like on a surface level, it's like, oh, me and Heidi, we have like everything in common, you know? Um this is easy. And then, you know, it's very also very, very personal. And she talks about the history of her family and her mom and her grandmother and her great-great-grandmother and what her family went through. And I think for me, the harder work was um allowing myself to feel like at home in her stories because I'm telling a real woman's story, and that's a unique experience, you know, and something I I've had the fortunate opportunity to do it one other time because I played Cheryl Strade um in Tiny Beautiful Things, and we did that with Pioneer. So I had that kind of experience um to fall back on, but it took a lot of work to really um live in her stories. And I that was one of the first pieces of advice that Dan gave me when I started um kind of working on it because it did I did start working on it on my own over the summer, and he was just like, you need to make these stories your own. Like, you know, whatever that means for you, you could be and that was such good advice um because I did really, really sit with her stories and her family history and try to um just try to make it part of my body. Um, and because the the only way to really tell her stories honestly is that they're when I'm that they're mine when I'm up there, you know, and that that took some time to live with. I really had to spend a lot of time with the material.

Benjamin Weisman:

It was a beautiful question, I thought it's just amazing to get to watch you do that. I will say in each of these, it really it's it's they feel like your stories, I think, in in a really beautiful way. Um, because I think you you are embodying them. And you know, I think what's interesting about the role, the legionnaire role that I play is that there's this there's this quote I love this philosopher Warren Bennis, who I will quickly say I know nothing about, so if he's a terrible person, please don't hold that against me. Um, but he said, and I'm paraphrasing uh that there are two ways of being creative one can sing and dance, or one can create an environment in which singers and dancers can flourish, and you need both. And I always joke, if you ever heard me sing, you would agree I should create the environment, not doing it. But I think part of so much of what I I see the legion and the role that I play in the show is helping to just create that environment, basically set the table so all the things that Miriam was talking about that she's able to do in telling Heidi's, in telling these stories and bringing this the story to life and moving moving the show along. And so it's been fun to sort of explore those different moments where where is you know where where my the the the task might keep things on schedule, where might the friend insists in encouraging or providing whatever you know whatever Miriam needs, Heidi needs in these in the moment, in each moment of the show. I think that's I think it's in a really beautiful um role in that respect. And really, it's it's a real I said this to to both Miriam and Dad, it's a real honor to get to do that. This is a play that I've loved. I saw this play when it was when when Heidi was first doing it, you know, off off Broadway back however many years it was. And I've loved this play since then. And so to get to sort of help create that environment and just be a support and a part of making, you know, helping to you know set the foundation, I suppose, in a way, for for these beautiful and critically important stories to be told is something that is gonna stick with me for a long time after this. Is all after you know we we we finished the run.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

What a beautiful sentiment that I think I had felt on some level, but hadn't really been able to put to words before. So I'm so glad that you shared that quote. I will say that you know, as a director, that is also what you do. You are creating this safe space in an environment in which people can create something new. And even for Miriam to like get comfortable with the stories of Heidi and embody that. And I want to know what that relationship between director and actor is. How were you able to assist in creating a safe space and in in bringing these people to life?

Dan Vissers:

Yeah. Um, well, fortunately, Miriam and I have some experience. We've worked together a few times. Um, so there's a trust there and a willingness to to play and not be afraid of failing, you know, trying things out. Um and with this play, like Miriam said, it it was a matter of finding a way to connect her personal stories to Heidi's. And once we started to find that and find the humor in the show, because it's a very funny show, too. And I want to stress that because people think, oh, it's gonna be a TED talk, it's gonna be kind of boring, and I'm gonna learn. No, I mean it's it's done in a in such a beautiful way that it's very entertaining. Um, there's a lot of aha moments that'll happen throughout the show where you're just like, oh my god, that makes, you know, I feel like a better person walking away from this show because you literally, I mean, Miriam can attest to it, but there's so many times where I'm like, I do that, like I'm part of that. I've done that a million times, and you're like, oh, you know, it kind of shines that light on it. So yeah, um, to get back to your original, it just working with Miriam, working with Ben, and just finding the naturalness of the situation, which again, they're so good at, you know. Um, so we had a lot of fun with this one for sure.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I'm excited about the show, and I'm uh so happy that you brought up the humor because I I like to maintain that humor is the best way to learn.

Dan Vissers:

100%.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

Sure, you can watch a dramatic show, and and I do occasionally, but honestly, most of what I watch is funny because you are able to walk away with a new understanding of the world without feeling weighed down by what you've just seen. So I love shows like that, and I'm I haven't seen the show in its entirety, I will tell you, because when I watched the original production, I think, was on Prime, they had another. And for whatever reason, Prime didn't want me to watch it, so it would buffer every five minutes or so, and I was losing my mind. A good show, I can tell this is a good show. I think I got 40 minutes in with all of that buffering. I was trying to stick it out, but I just I didn't have the patience for it. But I'm looking forward to coming to see your show in its entirety. Hopefully, Miriam, you will not be buffering on stage. I hope, I hope not. I hope not. Honestly, I would be very surprised if you did. That would that would be a new skill for you.

Miriam Salerno:

Yeah, the humor is is uh just just to chime in on what you're saying, um the humor of it is I think what makes this such a fun play to perform. Um, because I get to play Heidi at 15 and Heidi in her mid-40s, and she's a riot. She is hilarious, and it's almost, you know, so it seems like yes, it's I'm just talking for a long time, but as Dan and I have explored, I am like three or four different versions of Heidi over, you know, the course of the story. So it's not just you know, flat at all, like I am all over the map, and it's just it brings so much energy and life to it. And I love getting to be funny and getting to be silly and getting to be serious and getting to be angry, and it, you know, it's it's just really well constructed. It is an extremely well constructed play. Heidi has written a masterpiece, and what a gift as an actor to be able to go on this journey. It's really, it's really quite something.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I was gonna say, as an actor, that must be really fun because you're essentially playing three different roles. I mean, it's the same person, but when you're attacking someone from different points in their life, they are very different people. So I can imagine that this was a huge undertaking for you as a performer. But I'm wondering, and I think we sort of touched on this, but is there anything that you as actors learned, you as the director learned about our country that you hadn't known before? And maybe that is because of the text, but also because of the time in which you are performing it. Have you come to any of your own aha moments as people were intimately associated with the text?

Miriam Salerno:

Dan brings an aha moment every single rehearsal, so I'll let him start.

Dan Vissers:

Yeah, so this is a word that uh plays into the show a lot. Um, it's called penumbra. And that's something I've learned about, which is the most incredible thing. It's here I am standing in the light, and there you are in the darkness, and this area in between us, this partial illumination. Is Penumbra. And what I take from that is to every given topic, no matter how controversial it is, um, you could have two sides of that argument where they're gonna make brilliant points. And I think that's what this show enlightened for me is that you know, you think everything is so black and white, the good people are here, and all these people, and but when you really break it down, and this show teaches that of we're all in this partial illumination, and you're right, and you're right, and where do we meet, you know, and that's what the constitution tries to do, you know. Um, so penumbra, that's what I learned.

Benjamin Weisman:

And I think what's so interesting about it, and and what I think, you know, I've it it always fascinated me, I think, really, even now delving in more to the show and to the the the lessons from it, it's this idea of that the constitution, there's a the it it leaves it's just such an obvious statement, but it leaves so much to interpretation. Uh and so when we think about you know, we think about politics, if you will, we think about the you know, which is I think politics is so often uh a dirty word for so many people, which I I understand that, but really I look at that and say, what that really is is who do we want interpreting those those those uncertainties? Who do we want deciding what those five words in one sentence and one amendment mean? Because it's not clear. Uh and in fact, there's there's a lot. I think one of the things that the first time I saw it, rec realizing is even some of the the Supreme Court justices don't necessarily even understand what some of these mean. It's so it's up to humans to make these decisions. And I think every time we go through this this show, every time every rehearsal, I there's a moment I say, you know, you could argue anything about what those five words mean. What does the word shall mean? We heard, you know, what is the going back, what does the word is mean? Like these are not simple questions. Uh and I think I I wish more and more people recognized that all that politics, in my view, all that politics really is, is deciding who we want interpreting those things for us. Uh, and there's a real impact on the lives at every single level. And so, and now when I'm writing ordinances or resolutions in my town, I'm thinking about where is where is where's the vagueness? And is it deliberate vagueness or is it accidental vagueness? And really all that accidental vagueness is is kicking the can down the road to somebody else to make a decision and interpretation. I think my view, our constitution does that a lot. I think that let's play really, I think dramaturgically, where it's so brilliant, and I think in the ways that Mami you've crafted this, the the how the story is told uh in this production, where it's so brilliant is that Heidi's interpretation or relationship to it changes, and dramaturgically, it's such a natural or seamless. Well, I I thought this, but now I think this. And it's really seamless in the way that it happens. I think it's a beautiful thing for the beautiful journey for an audience to go through.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

You bring up such a good point because honestly, I only realized that maybe within the last year or two, that so much of the law, so much of our constitution really is up for interpretation. I guess when I was younger, or even you know, a young adult, I still assumed that everything was very widely accepted as this is truth, and we all understand it in the same way, which is becoming more and more evident that that no, society does not interpret everything in the same way. So that's a very good point. And I'm looking forward to how this production, since I only made it 40 minutes three months, I'm looking forward to seeing the evolution of that interpretation. So thank you for breaking that down in a way that that I could understand it. You know, I think that I had an understanding that I wasn't able to vocalize. And all of you, all three of you, have been doing a great job of vocalizing the things that we feel but don't know how to express. Thank you for that. And maybe, you know, thanks to Heidi as well for having written a text and giving you, you know, giving you the opportunity to do so.

Dan Vissers:

Yeah.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I think in closing, I just want to ask each of you. This is a scary question because I don't think that we should project an idea onto our audiences. Again, this isn't up for interpretation, but from a personal standpoint, what do you hope that audiences will enjoy about this production in its entirety? And I should bring up that you're doing a pre-show cabaret as well. And I and we didn't talk about that. So the production as a whole is larger than just the show and just Heidi's script. So let's talk a little bit about what the the cabaret is going to involve and what you hope the experience is for your audiences.

Miriam Salerno:

Yeah. So the cabaret was an idea that I had with um a performer that we've worked with a lot. Uh, their name is Jade Delos Santos, and they are the most extraordinary vocalists that I've ever heard live. Um, and so Jade had asked at some point about Pioneer doing more cabaret style performing, which shows. So it was something that we have talked about. And so when we decided to do this, I kind of had the idea. One of the things that Dan is great at as the artistic director for Pioneer is setting the context, like creating a place. When you walk into the theater, you are transported into another space to experience the show. And I have learned so much from Dan about this idea of you know, the experience starts as soon as they walk in the door. And so being that this is taking place in an American Legion Hall, Jade and I had this idea to kind of do like a USO style live pre-show. Dan and other directors at Pioneer are very uh thoughtful with the pre-show music, what people are hearing as they're gathering in their seats and you know, um just milling about before the show starts. Again, it sets this context, the sense of place. So the idea kind of came from that and came from Jade's as just this incredible vocalist and cabaret performer. And I thought, let's do a live pre-show, let's bring people into an American Legion Hall with um patriotic songs from the 20th century that you might experience at a USO. And it happens to be that Jade has this affinity for USO style music. It is something that they love to sing. It was a random coincidence that they have a songbook full of USO songs. Um, so it just the idea kind of came together, but really the intent is to create the sense of place. So you walk in and it's it's setting the scene for the rest of the performance.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love that. And I have to say I'm a huge fan of USO style performances. So I'm just getting amped, guys.

Dan Vissers:

I I just want to say Jade is incredible, and uh, like you said, like she had a book full of this music. It was the universe just lining it up. We were like, oh, that's gonna work out perfectly. So um, you know, we have a lot of tools in our toolbox and we have a lot of talented friends, and we're gonna use them. It's gonna be great.

Benjamin Weisman:

I'm just so excited for that. We hear the two of you talk. I'm like, I'm gonna be staying backstage just like giddy listening to it. It's gonna be so cool. I can't wait.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

I love it. I the thing I love about Pioneer is like the the genuine passion and joy that you always bring to your productions. And in speaking to you and speaking to the different casts and crews that I've spoken to over the years, it's just so obvious in everything that you do. And I'm excited. I'm and I'm proud. I that sounds so condescending. I don't mean it that way. I just mean like it's so nice to see people who genuinely enjoy what they do.

Dan Vissers:

Thank you, Gina. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Gina Marie Rodriguez:

What the Constitution means to me runs for a limited five performances, January 31st and February 1st, 6th, 7th, and 8th. For tickets and more information, be sure to visit Pioneer Productions Company.org. If you like this episode, be sure to review, subscribe, and tell your friends. A transcript of this podcast, links relevant to the story, and more about the arts in New Jersey can be found at jerseyarts.com. The Jersey Arts Podcast is presented by Art Pride New Jersey, advancing a state of creativity since 1986. The show was co-founded by and currently supported by funds from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts. This episode was hosted, edited, and produced by me, Gina Marie Rodriguez. Executive producers are Jim Atkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez. And my thanks to Miriam Salerno, Ben Weisman, and Dan Vissers for speaking with me today. I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez for the Jersey Arts Podcast. Thanks for listening.

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Gina Marie Rodriguez

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Maddie Orton

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