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Jersey Arts Podcast
'Queen of Kids' Music' Laurie Berkner is Back on Home Turf for McCarter Concert
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Laurie Berkner has been dubbed “The Queen of Kids’ Music” by People Magazine, and it’s not hard to see why. Berkner’s songs have been streamed 1.7 billion times. She’s sold 1.5 million albums and appeared at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, Carnegie Hall, and the White House. She was even seen her in the recent HBO documentary, Happy and You Know It, which features some of the biggest names of the genre.
A graduate of Rutgers and raised in Princeton, New Jersey, Laurie Berkner will be back on home turf when her tour stops at McCarter Theatre for two performances on Sunday, March 22nd. She discusses her upcoming concert, the creative process, how she got started, and her 18th album coming out in June— Walking with the Penguins.
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Hi, I'm Maddie Orton, and this is the Jersey Arts Podcast. Lori Berkner has been dubbed the Queen of Kids music by People magazine, and it's not hard to see why. Berkner's songs have been streamed 1.7 billion times. She's sold 1.5 million albums and appeared at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, Carnegie Hall, and the White House. You may have even seen her in the recent HBO documentary, Happy and You Know It, which features some of the biggest names of the genre. Not only that, Lori has written children's books, composed kids' musicals, and is currently working on her 18th album. A graduate of Rutgers and raised in Princeton, New Jersey, Lori Berkner will be back on Home Turf when her tour stops at McArthur Theater for two performances on Sunday, March 22nd. We sat down to chat about her upcoming concert, the creative process, how she got started, and her album coming out in June, Walking with the Penguins. Take a listen.
Laurie Berkner's creative process
Maddie OrtonThank you for joining me. I know you're recording and touring, so I really appreciate you taking the time.
Laurie BerknerOh, I'm very happy to be here.
Maddie OrtonI wanted to start by telling you how I came across your music. When my older son was around three, we enrolled him in a ballet class. And the teacher would start every class by playing the goldfish.
Laurie BerknerAmazing.
Maddie OrtonAnd the kids, these like crazy three-year-olds, including and especially my son, would lock in in a way that I've never seen in my life. And they would follow every instruction and do every little like song and dance sort of move. And it was great. And what I super loved about it was then like clockwork, I would get the song stuck in my head. And I was happy about it, which I think is like the greatest thing you can say when your kid is listening to music that you also like listening to. So I can't thank you enough for that. It's brought us both a lot of joy.
Laurie BerknerOh, well, thank you for sharing that story. Because I mean, that feels really good. I was about to apologize, but now I'm so happy I don't have to.
Maddie OrtonWell, I wonder, I was thinking for you as an adult creating music for kids, is there some sort of ethos behind what you want the music to accomplish, or like the litmus test of I like this as an adult, and adults will not be mad at me for this, or kids are gonna love this. Like, what are you looking to do when you create music?
Laurie BerknerWell, some of those things are different from each other, right? Like, I definitely want kids to love it, whether or not I know if they're going to love, I don't know if they're going to love it or not. I sometimes I'll try things or I'll have an idea that I think they'll probably really like it. But I really like to give you an example of a song that a lot of people know if they know my music, is uh We Are the Dinosaurs. So that was one of my earliest songs. And I remember writing that song, and the kids were really into it. Uh I have a whole story if we ever get into that, but it was was one of the first songs I ever wrote. So I I just remember after playing it for a couple of years, thinking to myself, is this a dumb song? Like, what is happening in this song? Like, I don't why and a dumb song, by the way.
Maddie OrtonI mean, the thing is, but I'm comforted to know that all artists have that moment of like, oh my God.
Laurie BerknerNo, but literally, some parents would say to me, like, you have to sing that song. My kid loves it. I love it. And I remember thinking, like, you don't, you don't love that song. I know you don't love like, but I mean, she really, like, they really did. And and and it wasn't that I didn't like it. It was just that I felt like I couldn't have any perspective on it, you know? And I was like, I'm singing about, I don't, did march dinosaurs march? I don't know. Like, you know, and I would just like made up words that I thought were sort of funny and you know, and I enjoyed that. I loved doing that. But uh, it was it, it's just sometimes it's very hard for me to understand why people like literally will pay money to come and see me sing these songs.
Maddie OrtonDo you think when you're writing this song? I mean, we should talk in a second about the creation of that song because I think it is a very cool story. But when you're writing it, I mean, there must be something where you're like, this is an interesting hook, or like there are some songs that I think are maybe more palatable than other songs for adults. And I think your music is really fun. When you're creating it, is part of the idea. Like, I kind of I could groove to this song. I enjoy this song.
Laurie BerknerYeah. Well, I definitely have to write songs that I'm willing to sing thousands of times. Yes, right. Like that, that's that's actually one of the the like lit, that's the litmus test. That's like the baseline. If I'm not willing to sing this song over and over again, it cannot be released. I'm excited. Because just in case anybody really likes it, even if I don't, then I have a problem, right? So um I definitely think about like, I mean, I I mean, I meant I mean that seriously, but what happens, what actually happens is that when I'm in the studio, like I have already gone through a whole process of, oh, this is a funny like rhyme, or oh, this is a fun idea for a song. I'm gonna write a song about it. So I start with this really positive feeling usually, and then um I start writing the song, and then I'm like, God, I can't write this song. It's terrible. I don't even know what I'm doing. No kid is ever gonna like this. The parents will hate me anyway. It's you know, it's so derivative. It's so like I have a million things, and then I'm like, okay, I'm done with that part of the writing process. And then I share it with usually with people that I work with, or I find some kids to sing it too. I'll sometimes go into um like daycare settings and stuff and try songs out. Oh my gosh, what a lovely test audience.
Maddie OrtonThat's fantastic.
Laurie BerknerWell, they're all like, we're smack. Um, but but so at so at some point I've I share it and then it's like I hear it for the first time outside of myself. And that's very helpful because I can see the reactions, I get a sense more of like, oh, this part is working, or this feels natural to sing it this way, or oh, someone started moving at, you know, move their hands when I said move your hands, or didn't when I, you know, and like so I get a lot of feedback that way. And then once and once it's finally gotten to a place where I'm like happy generally with it, I go into the studio and then it might take on an entirely other life because I'll if I have the band play on it, like they may come up with rhythmic parts or melodic parts that I did not uh think of. And so then it'll have a different feel, or it might be something I just do on my own and then it stays more similar to what I was originally thinking. But when I finally listen to it at the end when I'm mixing, like if I don't feel like if I'm not smiling and happy, or or whatever, maybe it's a sad song, but like if I'm not having the feeling I am hoping that somebody will have listening to it, like it doesn't make it onto an album or get released, or I just basically keep working on it at that point, I think. And sometimes, so I have one song now that became really popular called Chipmunk at the Gas Pump, which is also so fun. And by the way, how you know you're a Jersey girl because nobody else in the country actually has their gas pumped for them by somebody else. That is so true. Um, so and in fact, it came out of the fact that I that was a career goal for me. Like I thought it would be really fun to work at a gas station when I was a kid because I was like, you're outside all day, you get to talk to people, you're always walking around. Like it just seemed like a fun service job. Yeah, I could see that. Which I was being interviewed actually at the time that I came up with that song that and that came out in the interview, and then a kid called in and said, I want you to write a song about a chipmunk. And I was doing this thing where I was like, Oh, I'll I will improv a song right now. And so the host, who is um absolutely Mindy on Sirius XM, Mindy Thomas, she was like, I think you should so I talk about a chipmunk. Well, what about a chipmunk who works at a gas station and is too short to reach the gas pump? And I was like, I I can sing that song for you right now. Jump, jump, pump it up. Chipmunk at the gas pump.
Maddie OrtonI was listening to the song and I was like, you know what? I could I could see listening to this at the gym and like hoping nobody's really gonna know what's in my earbuds. But like I could see that being like, that's a good pop-pop song, literally.
Laurie BerknerYeah, well, I'm glad because it is. It's pump it up, right? So the whole I started on that story because when I first wrote that song, I wrote these whole like descriptive verses that have have some words in them that I wouldn't usually put in a kid's song. Like he was a very good worker who was fiercely independent. He made a fine living as a gas station attendant, you know, and I was like, I love this rhyme. Should I put this in a song for three-year-olds? I don't know if they'll understand anything I'm saying. And then I left it and I walked away from it. I would listen to the song after we had mixed it, and there was like all this synth stuff in it and stuff, and I was like, and crazy horn lines and stuff. And I thought, what preschooler is gonna get into like this is doesn't make any this is not what did I write? And I just like left it for months, and everyone who worked with me was like, that's a banger. That's gonna be really I was like, no, no, for you, but not for a kid. Like a little kid isn't gonna like it. And then I I didn't listen to it for months, and I went back and listened to it, and I was like, Oh yeah, they'll probably like this.
Maddie OrtonYeah, I think it's great. Well, I don't have the audience at home, I'll let you know.
Laurie BerknerGreat, great. And they all jump, like everybody jumps from that, which is like that's the part that makes it fun, even if they don't understand what it means to be fiercely independent.
Maddie OrtonBut they will from that.
Laurie BerknerAlthough they do, but they what?
Maddie OrtonThey will from this. That's how you learn, you know?
Laurie BerknerAbsolutely. No, of course. And I don't, it's not that I never put words in that I think kids won't know, because I do think that that it's really important for them to be discovering things. But um, I just wanted it to also, I wanted the story to make sense. Yeah, sure. You know, and I didn't want them to I didn't want to lose them. No, I think it's great. Chipmunk's name was Harry, and he wore a fancy tie. His sneakers both had glitter, and his socks was both knee high. He had a snazzy chipmunk stripe that ran right down his back, and every pocket held a tiny acorn he could grab. Jump jump, pop it up, chipmunk at the gas, puff, jump, jump, pop it up, chipmunk at the gas, puff.
Learning how to write music for kids
Maddie OrtonYou alluded to the walking with the dinosaurs story, which I know, but if for anybody who doesn't know, I think is a really cool explanation of your entree into creating children's music. Because you originally were working more in the what would you call it, like alt-rock, indie rock space?
Laurie BerknerI was, well, at the time when I got my first job as a music teacher for preschoolers, I was just playing in cafes by myself. Um, and I I was can't remember if I had my band then or not. I was just doing a lot of songs, like songwriting for adults and playing in cafes and dive bars and stuff, basically. But I was also a preschool music teacher. So I was writing songs like for the kids that I taught. And that was how We Are the Dinosaurs started because I'd been doing that job for a few years, a couple of years out of college at that point. And um I was really not very successful. Like I just the the teachers couldn't really leave me alone with the kids because I couldn't manage the classroom. And literally, I would just go home and cry every day because I just felt like these, I don't know how to talk to these kids. I feel like they speak an entirely different language than me. And like every time I think I'm bringing in something fun, they're like, that's baby stuff, you know, or they would be like, uh, or just like not pay any attention, or it just it would, it was really so much harder than I thought it was gonna be. So eventually my boss, who was the principal, said, you know, you could go and observe our prior music teacher who was here for 10 years and she had studied Dalcrosiurhythmics, which is a kind of system of teaching music that that incorporates movement. And she was like, She's she was brilliant, and maybe she could help you. I mean, the principal had a lot of faith in me, I will say. She like hired me to do her kids' birthday party. It was the first birthday party ever did. Oh, are you are you insane?
Maddie OrtonLike your boss's kid's birthday party.
Laurie BerknerIt but it was great. She was like, You're gonna be great. This it'll be great. Don't worry. Like, she was so generous, really, really generous. So I went and I I observed this woman, her name was is, I think, Ruth Alperson. And she like taught mommy and me classes up in Scarsdale. And I went and sat in on a class, and actually, I don't know if there were any adults in the class. It look what I remember, this is what I remember. Ruth is sitting behind a piano, doot do do do do do do do do do do playing, not getting up ever. Circle of three-year-olds doing every single thing that she asks them to do, as if like there was some sort of psychic connection between her and these kids. And like, won't you please stand up? And they would all go bloop and stand up. Wow, won't you please sit down? And they would all sit down. And I was like, What? Like, what drugs did you give these children? So afterwards, I went up to her and I was like, What how? No, how did you do that? I everything I say, they pay no attention to me. She's like, That's your problem. Stop talking. Put it all into the music. If you put it in the music, they will pay attention. And I was like, Really? I mean, I didn't really believe her, but I went back hours and hours in the library, listening to records, trying to learn songs, teaching them to myself, and then sitting down and playing them for them and having them be completely rejected. And I just remember this one day, I just said, okay, I don't even know what to do with you guys. Like, what do you want to sing about? And and literally one child yelled, dinosaurs. And then the entire room erupted. They were like, Yeah, dinosaurs. And I thought, oh, okay, let's be dinosaurs. Everyone, stand up, stand up. We're all gonna be dinosaurs. Okay, follow me. Um, start marching. And I was like, minor key, minor key, ants marching. We're gonna march. And I was like, He are the dinosaurs marching. Something like that. I don't even remember what I did the first day. And then, which was great for like um, I don't know, 10 to 15 seconds before they started literally attacking each other with their dinosaur claws. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh God, what did she say? Put it in the music, put it in the music. We are uh we're marching, marching. Stop and eat your food when you're in the on the ground. And they were like, okay, and they all just like dropped to the floor and started pretending to eat their food. And I was like, oh, this is really cool.
Maddie OrtonWow.
Laurie BerknerSo then I said, Okay, now we're marching again. We are the dinosaurs marching and follow me. And then they started to like, I don't know what else they were scratching and yelling. And I was like, stop and take a rest over in our nest.
Maddie OrtonOh my god.
Laurie BerknerSo and then I was like, okay, and don't you can't roar. I know dinosaurs there, everybody thinks dinosaurs roar, but we can't roar until the we're saving it for the end. So they all they slit, they pret I pretended to fall asleep. I don't remember, like, and I think originally when I do shows now, I fall asleep on stage and all the kids wake me up in that moment. But when I think when I did it with them, they all fell as they all went, they stop and took a rest over in our nest, stop and take our rest, and then you'll hear us say, and I waited, and they just laid there, and I was like, Prom, we are the you know, and then that it's so quiet, you know, that contrast. They were like, Oh, now we can march again. And then I was like, Don't roar, we're not roaring yet, we're not roaring yet. And then at the end, and then we ready? Roar! So that was like the make the bit like the the build-up to that was just so satisfying because we are the dinosaurs.
Maddie OrtonAnd I was like, okay, and now we come sit down, and they did, and it happens once at the end, and then it's that's so brilliant.
Laurie BerknerWhile we're waiting for the elevator, woo, woo! Might come sooner, might come later. Woo! When it does, we'll step inside and go for a ride.
Maddie OrtonPress the
Developing a career as a children's music composer
Maddie Ortonbutton to it. Keeping in mind that there were not a ton of people doing what you were doing when you started. And now, I think I have the stats in front of me. 1.7 billion streams, uh, billion with a B. And four-time platinum artists, I mean Lincoln Center, Carnegie Hall, AC's Thanksgiving Parade, the White House. Could you have anticipated this when you started? Like, did you realize that this was even a possibility? And obviously, you're right, like the internet and YouTube and Spotify has changed the game for sure, but like you've been able to make such a career in this space that is so unique and cool.
Laurie BerknerThank you. Yeah. I feel very lucky. I mean, I I do have moments where I'm like, oh, I mean, I really want to keep doing what I'm doing, but if I had to stop for some reason, like health or what, I mean, it would suck. No, no question. But I also feel like I've done a lot and I would feel really happy with that, I think. I no, I did not expect. I mean, I started writing those songs really because I didn't know what else to do in in the classroom and I wanted to keep that job, which paid well per hour, and it was not a lot of hours. I was only a year out of like when I started, I had only graduated a year before I started that job. And I started getting positions in other schools, and I started sort of building up this career. Basically, I was like, Oh, I'm a I'm a preschool music specialist and I have 25 classes a week. And then people would say, Well, my kid really loves you. Will you do some stuff in the summer in our building? And, you know, so it just like it really grew quickly. But when I first wrote all those songs, it it was to be able to do that. And I only recorded them because there were parents who were like, What is this song? Like, what are these songs? My kids coming home singing songs that I don't know. They're not, you know, it's not wheels on the bus or old McDonald or whatever. And I, so I thought, oh, I guess I better record them. And one of the places I worked, um, which was the West Side Y on the upper west, upper west side, um, I the person who ran the mommy and me program there was like, I will lend you money to make you need to make a cassette, which is what we made in the day. And she was like, You need to make it. I was like, Well, I don't have money to go into a studio. Like, I I mean, you don't pay me enough for that. So she was like, Okay, figure out how much money it would cost you to do it. Come back to me with like a proposal and we'll figure this out and I will I'll make it happen. So I found like a friend of a friend who had a basement studio in Hoboken. I figured out with him, I was like, okay, how can we do this over a weekend or something? And like, how much would it cost? And he was like, I'll do the whole thing for $2,000. And then I got some friends to play on it that they and I was like, when I make it big, I'll pay you, which by the way, I did, but I didn't at the time. And um, and I drew like the cover myself and I figured out how much it would cost and I had them made. And I somehow I've I spent maybe it cost a little, maybe it's $1,500 to make it and then $500 to actually manufacture them. But somehow I only spent $2,000 to make $500 cassettes. So I said, I'm gonna sell them for $5. And that means I'll make $2,500. Can I keep the extra $500 and give you the $2,000 back? And she was like, sure, if you can sell them. I sold them in like two months. They were gone, you know? And I thought, okay, I guess I should make some more. And that was when I started feeling like, what, how, what, what's happening here? Am I like, what do I need to do? How do I keep track of sales tax and like what what am I and what is this? And I called a friend who was like a freelance writer and she was like, You need to start a record label because that's what you're doing. And if you don't do that, you're gonna get screwed by the government and like you have to figure out like what you're you have to figure this out. So I I started to figure it out, and I still have that record label. It's called Tomatoes Records.
Maddie OrtonYeah. That's so strange. That's a good friend, too.
Laurie BerknerWaddle bottle heel heel waddle bottle. Waddle bottle heel heel waddle bottle heel.
Maddie OrtonYou
Upcoming concerts & album
Maddie Ortonhave a show coming up back on your home turf in Princeton at McArthur Theater. Will you be doing some of the Walking with the Penguins songs there at that concert?
Laurie BerknerYeah, I actually some of them have already become like I have to do them at all the shows. My bunny, My Bunny Goes Hop, Walking with the Penguins, Everyone's Demanding Bananas. I just we just released Big Baby Go Boom, which I I I had no idea if anybody would like. And then like after the first show I played it at, I have meet and greets after the shows where people get VIP tickets and then I talk them after the show. And like three people were like, oh, we listened to that four times on our way to the show. So I think that I think there'll be there are a lot of ones in there that um I think kids are gonna like wash it. It's about washing cars and trains and truck. Like, how can you go wrong?
Maddie OrtonYeah, for sure. Um, and you do a sensory-friendly performance as well, right?
Laurie BerknerYeah, that's such a great thing about playing at McArthur, which well, first thing that's fun about it is that I grew up in Princeton. So it's like sort of beautiful and also a little weird to go back there and play um in the place where I remember going to see the roaches and um, I don't know, Philip Glasses, some some something by hand. You know, I would just like remember going there and like that was the cool place to go see music, and now I get to play there. But they're also very cool there because they high like when they send me the offer, they always ask for a band show and a sensory-friendly show. And um, so a lot of times doing a sensory-friendly show really comes from the venue being willing to open their doors in that way and to talk to the ushers and really make sure that everybody understands what the rules are and what the rules aren't, you know, so that there's a lot of freedom for kids to walk around, make noise, do whatever they want, which people do that in my shows anyway, but it's just a it's a lower key, like a lower energy version of that. Um, I do it solo. I will have a woman named Michelle Esh who used to work in my office, but she's actually she's a dancer. And so now she sometimes tour manages and and often will dance with me on stage. And she's just a complete joy to watch. Um, which so that makes that sort of lifts the visual element of me playing a s a show solo when I don't have the band. And without it being, you know, a lot of lights in your face or, you know, big costumes and stuff like that's not really part of my shows at all. It's just like we wear sparkles and I do the songs, and there's a lot to do in each song. So she acts them out basically. Anything that I can't do while I'm because I'm playing guitar, uh, like she does it next to me. And then the kids have someone that um is modeling what's going on for them. And the sensory-friendly shows are so wonderful because I there are a lot of kids who this is their first show ever. And that parents are a little nervous about how they'll react. Some kids really can't deal with the loud sounds. And so when I do, like I do, I have one song where I say to everybody, um, if you're having fun today, make some noise so I know. Like, I wouldn't do that in a sensory-friendly show. The clapping itself can be a lot for a lot of kids who have sensory issues. We keep the lights, you know, pretty simple and the sound is a little lower. And so it's just the the whole thing. They have like fidget toys for the kids. They can run around the room. If if you know, if if you have a a child or a young adult who like makes noises that usually in like a more traditional theater setting wouldn't be okay. It's like totally fine if they need to stand up for the whole show, like all that stuff. It's really great. Yeah.
Maddie OrtonOh, that sounds terrific. Well, congratulations on all of your success, and it's so nice to have you back in Princeton for your show. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thanks to Lori Berkner for joining me. The Lori Berkner band will play McCarter Theater in Princeton on Sunday, March 22nd. For more information on the show, visit McArthur org. If you liked this episode, be sure to give us a review, subscribe, and tell your friends. A transcript of this podcast, as well as links to related content and more about the arts in New Jersey, can be found on jerseyarts.com. The Jersey Arts Podcast is presented by Art Pride New Jersey, advancing a state of creativity since 1986. The show is co-founded by and currently supported by funds from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts. This episode was hosted, produced, and edited by yours truly, Maddie Orton. Executive producers are Jim Atkinson and Isaac Cerna Diaz. Special thanks to Lori Berkner and McArthur. I'm Maddie Orton for the Jersey Arts Podcast. Thanks for listening.
